A Jazz Discussion w/ Jonathan Ball
Via SMS text messaging on the evening of 6/14/24 - shared here with permission.
Jonathan Ball is an accomplished jazz horn player. In between gigs and recording dates, he doubles as a woodwind repair guru in his Connecticut based shop, "The Music Lab". Our talk revolves around Jonathan's initial discussion(s) with jazz great René McLean who frequents Jonathan's shop.
It should be noted that Jonathan and I are great friends and attended Western Michigan University, were roommates, and played many gigs together back in the day. We stay connected through good ol' sms text messaging. Jonathan asked me recently if I had any questions for René. The following is our conversation from last night.
Sam: Getting back to René (McLean)- I'd be interested in what up-and-coming players have grabbed his attention. Also, what is he listening to these days. What's on his playlist jazz or other.
Friday (6/14/24)· 8:01 PM
Jonathan: I talked with René yesterday about his jazz listening preferences. He mainly listens to the masters: "Sonny, Trane, Joe, my dad..." He finds that most music that came after these greats is too derivative to capture his interest. While he appreciates the 1970s "jazz aid" revolution led by Jamey Aebersold and the formalization of jazz within university systems, he believes this has created a dysfunctional artistic environment and nearly eliminated the mentor system that was crucial during the golden era of Afro-American music. The ease of obtaining information, such as transcriptions and harmonic analysis, has replaced the need to dig into vinyl records and truly absorb the essence of the music. René noted that the masters are immediately identifiable, whereas modern players tend to sound relatively similar.
In addition to the classics, René also listens to a lot of world music, including Indian, Turkish, and other ethnic musics.
I agree with him 100%. My listening is very similar, although I don't listen to as much ethnic music as he does, though I am currently listening to some instrumental, Indian music, which is really great.
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=MPmpuPnSOPE&si=PvhnolONsXYfYBP4
Sam: Man, I can't tell you what that means to me. Thanks for asking that question. He really nails it on many levels.
I will check out your link this weekend.
Jonathan: I told him you were teaching Jazz drums at Western until his buddy Billy Hart showed up
Sam: LOL!
I wasn't teaching shit. I was just trying to keep up! 😆
Jonathan: 🤷
Sam: That's introspectively deep and appreciated.
Great memories from Western. Blessed on many levels.
Jonathan: ‼️
Jonathan: His students ask him why he doesn't come out to hear them very much and he says, "cause y'all sound the same and that's what I hear in the practice rooms all the time."
I agree with that too. I hear guys all the time come in after I fix their horns and play test them in the studio next-door and they all play the same shit and have a very similar sound to each other. I fall in the same category as a product of that method, though I did play the shit out of my vinyl records…
Sam: If there is one thing I can respect in a cat like that is keeping it real - on all levels.
Jonathan: Sanborn is similar. He may not have played super complicated stuff, but you knew immediately who it was after one note. Now, you hear 1 million guys play the same shit and sound identical except none of them sound just like David.
Sam: How is this cycle going to be broken?
Will there ever be another 'great'?
Jonathan: I don't think that 1930 to 1969 period can ever be duplicated or even assimilated. Cats out of the bag now.
Sam: Didn't you once say 'all of the great notes / phrases / songs have been written'?
Jonathan: It's like in the wild west, when anyone entered town, they needed to check their guns in with the sheriff. Another thing that will never happen again.
Sam: You did say that and I was jaded to hear it... but now I think you are right! brb
Jonathan: I was just thinking logically that with 12 notes, there's only so much you can do in the system of western music, especially if you want to fit within a particular style. There's only so much that can be said. I feel like that's why Miles got out of, the acoustic music game when he did. Everything had been said. Even though it was horrible to lose Bird when we did, he pretty much said everything in the style of bebop that needed to be said.
I remember Ken Werner coming in and doing a master class, basically throwing chalk at the blackboard to come up with notes to make a melody.
Sam: Amen.
I played with him (with Trent, Knific and Zegree.) This is all very surreal.
Eddie Daniels too
Wish I had recordings of those WMU concerts
Jonathan: I think they exist in the library archives.
And Randy [Brecker]
Sam: Yeah! Randy! Janice Seagal of the Manhattan Transfer too. I had no idea at the time how really fortunate I was to be playing with them.
Jon, I gotta look into that archive thing
Jonathan: You are a lucky son of a gun to play with those cats, all in their primes
Sam: ❤️
Sam: All the 12 notes! René McLean
Ancestral Calling: Music of the Spirit - 2018
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=L1X7OhpNsvE&feature=shared
Knot The Blues (Live at Whipoowill) - YouTube Music
Jonathan: He gave me that disc last week. Carl Allen on drums.
Sam: Serendipitous
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There may very well be more conversations from a repair shop in the future! Sit tight and stay tuned. Maybe I can get Jonathan to guest blog next time.